Christian Humanism

I am a young man who is striving to diligently seek Christ in my life. I am a graduate student at Xavier University in Cincinnati, OH. I have recently come across your web site concerning the errors of the Charismatic Church . First, I would like you to know that I am not charismatic and hold a strict believe that denominations of any sort are ungodly and that we as Christians need to see past these petty arguments and come together as one Bride regardless of individual beliefs. Is Jesus going to have many different brides (denominations) or just one? However, I wish you to comment on my grave concern over your web site which doesn’t allow for individual interpretation of the word through the leading of the Holy Spirit, who is the only true teacher of the Word until Christ returns. (please note that the BOLD sections are relevant to my concerns)

You said on your web site:

The Word gives no command to be baptized by the Spirit. He was given as a Gift of God, sovereignly and right on schedule--fifty days after the resurrection. It was not the disciples who asked or prayed for the Spirit, but the Lord Jesus. "I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter" (John 14:16). He was given as a Gift of God, sovereignly and right on schedule--fifty days after the resurrection. It was not the disciples who asked or prayed for the Spirit, but the Lord Jesus. "I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter" (John 14:16). He was given as a Gift of God, sovereignly and right on schedule--fifty days after the resurrection. It was not the disciples who asked or prayed for the Spirit, but the Lord Jesus. "I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter" (John 14:16).

The Word says this:

Acts 1:5 - For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:15 - Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Acts 8:16 - (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 8:17 - Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:18 - And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Acts 10:47 - Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Acts10:48 - And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. (water baptism) Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19:2 - He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:3 - And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Acts 19:4 - Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Acts 19:5 - When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 19:6 - And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

I would like to comment that there is indeed two separate acts of baptism 1. of Jesus Christ (water baptism) and 2. of the Holy Spirit (laying of hands for baptism of the Holy Spirit). I sincerely hope that you as astute Bible Scholars have not missed these Scriptures lest you don’t believe in the entire word.

Please feel free to comment back as I am always open to instruction as long as it isn’t in direct opposition (as your above web site comment is) of the Word of our Lord.

In Him, Eric Dale

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Thanks for your letter. You are asking some good questions. I was raised in a very, very large denomination of Christendom. When I was also young, I knew nothing of what the various denominations believed, neither did I care. However, that all changed shortly after I became a new-creation Christian. As a "babe" in Christ, the Holy Spirit gave me a burning desire to understand why and how the various denominations differed. The Holy Spirit put in a small room and from that quitness, I began to read, read, and read more. What the Holy Spirit showed me was that for the most part, the divisions in Christendom were not "petty," but rather disagreements over critical issues and doctrines. These doctrinal differences could be so extreme that they could prevent some members from ever hearing or understanding the genuine Gospel of Grace. I see you have just begun reading THE LINE DRAWN. Did you finish the entire booklet? Notice that every verse you quote, is from the first 19 chapters of Acts. Acts is a book of transition -- and one of the most difficult to grasp because so much is going on. "Proof-texting" establishs nothing. Further, there is a very important rule to always keep in mind when reading the Word. Everything therein was not written directly TO YOU. Now for the Acts verses:

Acts 1:5 - Statement of fact, no imperative COMMAND.

Acts 2:38 - Reference to WATER baptism.

Acts 8:15 - Third party supplication, a dispensational extension of the Spirit -- see Chapter VI, page 32 of the LINE DRAWN

Acts 8:16 - A dispensational extension of the Spirit -- see Chapter VI, page 32 of the LINE DRAWN

Acts 8:17 - A dispensational extension of the Spirit -- see Chapter VI, page 32-34 of the LINE DRAWN

Acts 8:18 - Statement of fact, no imperative COMMAND.

Acts 10:47 - Statement of fact, no imperative COMMAND.

Acts10:48 - Reference to WATER baptism.

Acts 19:2-6 - A dispensational extension of the Spirit -- see Chapter VI, page 36-37 of the LINE DRAWN

Nearly 30 years ago, I knelt in my bedroom alone, and asked the Lord Jesus Christ to show me who's teaching was correct --- charismatic or non-charismatic. He didn't immediately answer my prayer, but motivated me into a 5 year study of everything I could get my hands on about the subject. At the end of that period, the Holy Spirit convinced me that the claims of the pentecostal and charismatics were ERSATZ. He then confirmed that truth for the next 25 years. I hope you will spend some time on your knees as well.

By His grace and mercy, Dan R. Smedra

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Thank you for the reply.

I understand that the word does not COMMAND us to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. Paul teaches that it is a gift we have to ask for. I also know that ENTIRE WORD IS NOT WRITTEN TO ME. Clearly in those passages which were written to "the church" in Acts includes me since I am part of this worderful entity called the church. I understood your web site to
claim that baptism in the Holy Spirit as a separate act from being saved is a false teaching. Clearly it cannot be since the first church who were under the direct teaching of Jesus Christ Himself layed hands on average lay people for their receiving of the Holy Spirit. In Acts 19:2 it is asked of believers if they have recieved the Holy Ghost since they believed (or were saved). In Acts 8:17-18 says that the apostles layed their hands (prayed) on people and they received the Holy Ghost.

My problem is not that you teach that it is not commanded of us because clearly we are not commanded of that form of baptism only of water baptism. However, clearly it is a gift to be asked for separate from salvation and as the Charismatics believe an act that usually involves the laying on of hands. My intent here is not to argue but to state that in your attempt to educate people you are at war with the very people who should be on your side. As I stated in my first email as ONE CHURCH denominations need to stop attacking each other and start to realize that there are much bigger struggles in the world which we can only overcome united. Sir, being educated is not about proving one view over another but realizing that there will always be different view points until the Lord returns. Its understanding that if something is plainly stated as it is in the passages I wrote above then you can understand why some hold those beliefs even if you and others do not. To proclaim that they are in err is arrogance. Some of the most educated intellegent people in the world proclaimed that the world was flat. Please let us not attack each other because our war is already won! We as Christians need to proclaim the love of our Father not Doctrine. I hope that you will post this comment on your Web Site as you said you would.

Thank you very much, Eric Dale

Dear Eric

I read through your letters and the reply from Dan in the discussion board. The question of "Baptism in/by/of the Holy Spirit" has definitely been one that I have wrestled with myself. Not so much the texts which you have mentioned in Acts, but more an understanding of how this doctrine fits into everyday Christian life. Having attended both Charismatic and Pentecostal assemblies, I was well acquainted with the teaching of the baptism of the Holy Spirit--as a separate experience. What I found disturbing was not the doctrine (which I thought was well substantiated) but the absence of true spirituality in the lives of those who had undergone this second experience. This included my own life.

Yes, there seemed to be power, God seemed to be working, but there was a marked absence of any holiness when it came to sin in my own life. Casting out demons did not help, praying for more power neither. Was it more "Faith" I needed? I think I would have lost all hope had I not stumbled on the Growth truths presented in this website and that of Miles J Stanford. Since I have grasped the basic truths of position, I now interpret everything I read in the Word based on this foundation. It is my experience that the Holy Spirit is building onto the foundation of me being 'in Christ', already completed. One does not reach a new level by having an experience. The only true life-changing experience that I have had since my New Birth has simply been the realization that I am complete in Him. I think it is most poignant that the book of Romans follows the book of Acts. It is almost saying, "Alright, now that you have seen all the exciting experiences of Acts lets settle down with a good dose of foundational doctrine so that you do not get distracted and go after power instead on learning about the Life of Christ and how He means to manifest Himself in you."

Yes, doctrine is very important. Not so much to prove a point but in order to live the Life. It is through correct doctrine that our experiences and the experiences in Acts are brought into perspective. Sure I can see how the Charismatic/Pentecostal doctrine is derived, but I find it lacking. Look at how Paul builds on truths in Romans. He never once speaks of stages in a Christian's walk. Throughout Romans he speaks to the Christian as though the truths he is presenting are valid for all, young believers and mature. He does not speak of levels, but of knowing who we are in Christ. (Note that the only difference between carnal/fleshy Christians and mature are that the mature are abiding in their position in Christ whilst the carnal are attempting to produce the benefits of that position in their flesh). Not once does an experience enter into the equation.

You said, "We as Christians need to proclaim the love of our Father not Doctrine." However when you came to Christ did you not hear about how He died in your place? Was it not this doctrine that explained to you the love of the Father? A simple, "God loves you," will never do. You need to know how God loves you by seeing that He sent His Son. How much; by seeing that He died for you and placed you in His Glorified Self. You cannot tell me that you do not need this doctrine. How much more do we need the other truths--that God is using to bring us to the realization of His fullness. "And you are complete in Him".

Love in Christ

Jason van Breda

South Africa

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